Denis Gloger: "Barcelona has known how to reinvent itself, and German expats reinvent themselves with it"

Denis Gloger is the president of NeDeNa, a business association born ten years ago in Barcelona to connect German-speaking entrepreneurs, businesspeople, and professionals with the local economic fabric. What started as a small network of twenty people has grown to over a thousand members in Barcelona alone, and another 250 in Madrid. On the occasion of its tenth anniversary, Gloger reflects on the evolution of the German-speaking expat community in the city, the digital hubs that are transforming the business landscape, taxation, housing, and integration. A conversation about ten years of fusion between two cultures with much more in common than it seems.

--- Who are you and what do you do in Barcelona?

--- Ten years ago, we had the idea of creating a business and entrepreneurial network for young people who came here, to Barcelona, and missed a space to connect, create synergies, and expand contacts. It is a community open to people who share a common element: speaking German.

--- Not just for Germans, then?

--- No: they can be people from here, Austrians, Swiss, or of any other nationality… they just need to be able to speak German. We started with an idea and looked for profiles that might interest us, we did the first pitch before 20 people and today we are celebrating ten years, with more than a thousand members in Barcelona alone and 250 in Madrid (where we also started operating two years ago). What do we do? We meet once a month, organize an event, invite speakers who can add value to this community. They can be people from Germany, but they can also be, for example, politicians from the European Union, from the City Council, from the Generalitat… We have collaborated with all these institutions, although most are businesspeople who are here, established in Barcelona.

--- As I recall, NeDeNa had an age limit for its members. Is that still the case?

--- That is an issue we want to change now. Until now, the limit was 45 years old, which is already a somewhat high limit for an entrepreneur or a professional, but our associates are getting older and what used to be an entrepreneur or a young professional is now a business owner or executive. That is a good sign: it means they stay here, that they don't come for a while and then leave. There are many people who want to join this network and cannot find a valid alternative. Therefore, we want to neither limit nor exclude by age. If the spirit of NeDeNa (non-conservative, more from the startup world, more technological) interests and appeals to you, then we do not want to exclude you by age.

"With many expats living in Barcelona, we have the feeling that they lack access (either actively or passively) to the local community"

--- I would say that one of the ideas behind NeDeNa was also that: to help the expat community, in this specific case German-speaking, to integrate. Because it is true that with many expats living in Barcelona we have the feeling that they lack access (either actively or passively) to the local community. Therefore, the idea was precisely that: to bring together or open that bubble in which expats live by organizing events with other comparable groups, with local people, local institutions (it can be the City Council, it can be local companies) and also open social events (Christmas or summer party) so that there is more mix and more contact with the local reality.

--- Is the profile of associated companies usually specifically startup or is there a bit of everything?

--- I believe the profile has been changing over the last ten years. At the beginning, startups predominated a lot, newly created companies that were perhaps in their first or second round of financing; they could be very small companies created by local people or companies with foreign capital that settled here in Barcelona for various reasons. What we are observing is a shift from the startup world to the digital hub world. Barcelona has consolidated itself as a pole of attraction for large international companies (which create more than 200,000 jobs), including many German ones, such as Porsche Digital, Schwarz IT… We often collaborate with them, organizing joint events and projects. These companies find here an ecosystem with highly trained technological talent, and that generates employment and brings a lot of value to the city.

"Spain, Barcelona or Catalonia, in some administrative and digital areas, are much more advanced than Germany"

--- There are many factors. What I no longer buy is that here there is only sun and beaches. The quality of life is very good; but we also have a very good infrastructure, we have training and talent, excellent business schools, quality and easily accessible universities… We have an airport connected to all of Europe, thanks to which in two hours you can reach practically anywhere on the continent. All these factors, together with the impact of the Mobile World Congress, which has helped to create a very powerful technological ecosystem, make Barcelona a very attractive city for international companies and professionals.

--- Does it have anything to do with digital development? Is Barcelona more or less advanced than Germany in digital terms?

--- Let me tell you that Spain, Barcelona or Catalonia, in some administrative and digital areas, are much more advanced than Germany. Communications with the tax agency, with social security, are completely digital. We have the digital certificate, which greatly facilitates many administrative procedures and processes. In Germany, on the other hand, everything is in writing, almost by hand; in a very little digitized way. Also the technological infrastructure, such as fiber optics, is much more developed here.

And yes, Barcelona is especially attractive not only for hosting the world mobile phone congress, but also because it is digitally developed as a city.

--- There is also a historical connection between Catalonia and Germany, isn't there?

--- Exactly. There is the historical connection that Catalonia has with Germany: the four engines of Europe that in the 80s formed that pact between Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Baden-Württemberg, Catalonia and Lombardy. This attracted a lot of investment from medium and large German companies to Catalonia. Of all the German companies in Spain, more than 50% are located here, in Catalonia. And that obviously makes it easier for the next one to decide where to settle.

--- Do you know of any association similar to NeDeNa in other countries?

--- The Dutch are quite powerful in networking issues, the Italians usually do it more through the Italian Chamber of Commerce. In Germany, in NeDeNa, we have this target of technological startup, of entrepreneur; we don't know anything similar, neither here in the city nor in Spain. Therefore, I think we had the right idea at the right time.

"Setting up a company in Barcelona can still take weeks, whereas in countries like the United Kingdom or the United States the process is much faster."

--- If we compare it with Germany, I wouldn't say that Spain has particularly higher taxation; in many aspects, the burden is quite similar. Where there is room for improvement is in bureaucracy and administrative agility. Setting up a company here can still take weeks, while in countries like the United Kingdom or the United States, the process is much faster.

That said, Spain, Catalonia, and Barcelona also have attractive tools to attract international talent, such as the well-known Beckham Law ---which allows foreigners who move to Spain to work to pay taxes as non-residents---, which facilitates the arrival of foreign professionals and makes international hiring more competitive.

--- Do you have the feeling that the Spanish Tax Agency is very invasive or interventionist?

--- Yes, there is a certain perception of intense administrative control, especially compared to other European countries. But it must also be said that, in general, the procedures are clear and that, if the documentation is in order, the administration usually responds correctly.

--- And on the real estate issue, how do you see it?

--- It's a global problem; we share the housing problem with large European cities, with uncontrolled prices and the added problem that we have little housing and cannot grow easily due to the limitations of the sea and the mountains. It is a present problem.

--- And what happened to all that about the four engines? Do you have the feeling that states have gained weight compared to economic regions?

--- Yes, I have that feeling. I believe that today Europe looks less at internal competencies between regions because the focus is much more global. The real competition is with the United States, China, and other large economic blocs.

That is why I believe that Europe must act increasingly in a coordinated manner, without losing the identity and strength of its regions.

"The debate should not focus on whether expats are "good" or "bad", but on how they integrate and what positive impact they can have"

--- It's a complicated question because, when we meet, we mainly talk about economic issues. About business, about work. My particular experience is that there is a certain distance between the expat world and local society, and that's what we try to eliminate. But people, when they've been here longer, evidently develop another sensibility. There are many examples of associates who learn Catalan, who want to integrate, who don't have a plan to come for a few years and leave. As the years go by, their affinity with the local culture and reality also grows.

--- Here, sometimes expats are blamed for raising housing prices or not integrating. Do you notice this, or is it exaggerated?

--- I think that perception is a bit exaggerated, although we do notice it sometimes. The debate, in my opinion, should not focus on whether expats are "good" or "bad," but on how they integrate and what positive impact they can have.

Many of them create jobs, bring talent, and have a high level of education. It is true that they can contribute to straining the real estate market, but that also poses planning and integration challenges for the city. In general, I believe the positive aspects outweigh the negative ones.

--- Finally: Barcelona's best virtues right now and what you would like to see improved.

--- The best virtues: the adaptability of a city that relied heavily on tourism, design, architecture, and that has made the leap towards a digital and technological city that is attracting a record amount of foreign investment (more than 1,000 million in 2024 alone) and that has known how to adapt, as it has done many times in its history. Catalans in general and Barcelona have always adapted and reinvented themselves.

"Many expats create jobs, bring talent, and have a high level of education"

--- I think the most negative aspect is the perception of insecurity that a part of the population has. This perception may or may not be adjusted to reality, and often it is also conditioned by certain trends or discourses, but the truth is that the image projected, both externally and internally, is that of a city with considerable criminality.

Another important aspect is cleanliness. Although there are neighborhoods where very high resources are already allocated, Barcelona has an exceptional urban density and receives millions of tourists every year, which generates enormous pressure on public space. Probably, investment in cleaning and maintenance should continue to be reinforced, because the image of a well-kept and clean city is key both for residents and for the city's international projection.